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Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:40:42 -0400
From: Hirsch <Catenary@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Cooling system repair compunds
Graham Hilder wrote:
=
> I'm always interested in knowing about products which
have
> been proven to work, so for me as a Kiwi reader could you
> please advise a little more about the one named Alumaseal
> which you spoke well of...
Alumaseal is a very fine aluminum (or aluminium if you prefer)
powder that is probably available world-wide. In Alfa
pub. no. 2364 (6/75), "Alfetta Inspection Specifications,"
under "Engine Cooling," sealing compounds it states:
Sealing mixture for cooling
circuit,
1 g/liter
Powder: AXREONS, norm. 3522-00101
N.B., Alumseal can be used as alternative
product.
So Alumseal's use is actually "endorsed" by Alfa.
One of the problems with Alumseal is that if it is dumped
into the coolant reservoir, it just sort of sits there,
so some effort should be made to add it directly to the
radiator. In the US it's available in a small plastic tube
at almost all auto parts stores.
Rich Hirsch
'87 Milano
'78 Spider
'67 Duetto
'66 Sprint GTV
Editor, i Saluti, St Louis AROC
Website: http://www.catenary.com/victor/isaluti
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 20:17:34 -0400
From: "Ferdinando Di Matteo" <ferdinando.di@prodigy.net>
Subject: Milano radiator fan relay
The relay is on the right front inner fender just back of the
right
headlight. It has a fuse on top of it rated at 30 amps. The
earth-ground
is
through the relay. The relay power comes directly from the
battery
to the
relay. If you pull the fuse, you should find 12 volts at some
point in the
relay base even with the ignition switch off. Fred Di
Matteo
USA AROC
Technical Advisor
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:58:49 EDT
From: AlfaNeely@aol.com
Subject: Re: alfa-digest V7 #1637 - Milano Water Pump
The Milano water pump is not that
hard. I did
mine the other weekend in
an afternoon.
Bring everything up to the respective timing marks
and make sure that
they are still there when you get it back together. There is
no need to
retime everything if you do not turn the engine or anything while it
is
apart. For ease of reference, I paint all the timing marks with
yellow or
white paint.
The timing marks of the cams are on the plastic
removable covers and they
are not at twelve o'clock. More like 1 o'clock for the passenger
side cam
and 11 for the driver side. Sort of silly to have timing marks
on the covers
where you cannot use them when the covers are removed. The
distributor
drive
does not have to be removed.
You have to take off the timing belt
tensioner to
get to one of the water
pump bolts. Getting the tension set back is not a problem.
Just align the
marks and tighten the bolts. A 3/8 inch socket fits the square
hole in the
tensioner nicely. Get a book if you do not know how to align
the marks on
the tensioner. Basically, there is an arrow that you aim at a
mark on the
tensioner. Do not put too much tension on the socket extension
as I broke my
mechanical tensioner the previous time I did the water pump.
After the timing belt is back in place and
tensioned,
put the car in
third or fourth gear and roll it ahead a few revolutions. Make
sure the
tensioner is still on its marks and all the other timing marks are
where they
should be. Then put the timing covers, belts and everything else
back on.
You do have to remove all the belts, so just as
well replace them at the
same time. And maybe replace the hoses too.
Ciao,
Russ Neely
Oklahoma City
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 19:06:09 -0700
From: "eroe@ix.netcom.com" <eroe@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Milano Water Pumps
Just had to get a few words in on this subject.
I am in agreement with Charlie - try to find out why the last
one failed.
Unfortunately, I have changed too many of these pumps. A couple
of things I
learned:
1. Alfa OEM pumps are more expensive, but much superior
to after-market
pumps. This rather harsh statement is based on about 6 pump
replacements.
During my early Milano years, a typical after-market pump would last
20 to
30k miles. The last Alfa OEM pump was still working great after
100k miles.
If the bearings do not feel worn, you can "check" a pump by
giving the
pulley a good spin (no belt on it) and watching the pulley when it
stops.
If the seal is still "good" the pulley will stop abruptly. Don't
know how
to explain this better, but the seal will quickly stop the rotation
once the
speed drops to a certain level. The pulley will not slowly come
to a stop.
Water pump seals are face seals (not radial lip seals, like oil seals)
with
axial springs that ensure the seal contact pressure.
2. Fan belt tension is critical. I tend to run the
belt
just tight
"enough". How tight is that? Well, I guess you should try
to slip the
alternator pulley with your hand. Tighten the belt until it this
is
"difficult" to do and then loosen it a bit. Also, please use
a new belt!
As the belt wears, it drops further into the pulley and can require
more
tension to transmit the same power. Make sure you get the right
width.
It has been my view that bearing wear, leading to radial play,
leading
to
seal leakage, leading to more and faster bearing wear is the
pattern.
Hot
coolant will take the grease out of bearing very quickly. As
a note, the
164 design utilizes very high belt loads and the pump bearing appears
to be
very different from the Milano design. Have not cut an old one
up yet to
see. Has anyone else?
Erik Roe
Portland, Or
--- In alfa75@egroups.com, Carson Damm <dammwood@h...> wrote:
> If your car is overheating in stock form you have a problem that
needs
> to be fixed and not covered over. My fan comes on near 100C and
brings
> it right back down to about 80C which I believe is as it should
be.
>
> Carson Damm
> Ft. McMurray, AB
> Canada
>
> 87 Alfa Milano Platinum
> 77 Alfa Spider
> http://members.home.net/75milano
> Milano and 75 stuff
> Hi,
I agree with Carson that somewhere in there lies a problem wanting
to
be solved. Only I found, also from past experience with other
cars,
that the most common problem with overheating is the rad itself,
since most people don't always use cooling fluid in the system, but
a
mixture of it with water. The water is not always distilled, as
it
should be, to my opinion, so this allows the slow build-up of all
sorts of residues as well as rust inside the rad, which is
playing
the role of the "filter" of the system, because it has very narrow
passages inside it. So after, I would say, a couple of years the
bottom three-four rows of the rad are blocked, which decreases
the
efficience of the rad. Now, since all modern rads, as the ones on
Alfas, have plastic ends, you cannot take them apart, flush the
inside and put them back on again, as you could do with the older
copper rads, because they would leak. So, one can easily figure
out
that the solution is to replace it. Of course one can always try
to
flush the cooling system, but it will never be the same again
(I've
tried it), so when I had to solve the problem I went for a new
rad.
That's where I thought, since I'm going to pay for a new rad, why
not
see what else-better-is available with the least possible cost?
the
TD rad. Mounts on the same points, the pipes are at the exact
same
place of the V6 ones, so why not?
Of course, Simon, you can try to start with a cheaper and easier
solution, to replace the ventilator switch, or eventually trying
to
flush the system, possibly with some experts' help, who have some
special high pressure machines for this purpose, before you go out
to buy a new rad.
All the above is under the assumption that the rest of the engine
is
OK and the thermostat works properly, of course.
Good luck,
Danny
> hobbez@h... wrote:
> >
> > Gents,
> >
> > I noticed that my 75 does not cool enough.
> > It was just 24 degree celsius yesterday in holland and i got
stuck
in
> > a traffic jam. My fan was on but i saw the temperature rise.
> >
> > Do you all have similar experience ???
> >
> > I am thinking about placing an additional fan on the opposite
site
of
> > the current one.
> > Is this a good idea or do you suggest otherwise !
> >
> > Simon
Subject:
[alfa75]
Overheating
Date:
Tue, 18 Jul
2000 23:08:24 EDT
<< You should be switching a relay in the engine bay
which controls
the fan.
>>
This too can be dangerous as the relay for the fan has 12V
going in
and a
much smaller voltage coming out to the ignition. If 12V is applied
to the
wrong pin then it can burn out that switch and wires etc. I almost
did this
but our tech advisor (Jim Stephens - ARA of N. Calif.) said it is an
absolute
no-no.
My Milano just overheated like crazy and I could not diagnose the
problem.
When running with air coming through to cool the motor it stayed at
normal
temp. however if I got stuck in stop-and-go traffic or driving up a
steep
hill then the temp would zoom up and bells would ring and lights
flash.
Checked the fan and put 12V to it, and it worked fine. Also the relay
and
fuse were both good. I called Jim and he told me to check the
thermo-switch
on the bottom left side of the radiator and clean the terminals. I
did this
and found that one of the electrical wires going to the switch was
hanging
off. I cleaned both terminals and replaced them and all became normal
again.
However I have probably been driving for many months, if not years
with this
hanging off, and with no fan. Just shows how cool running this six
cylinder
engine is.
Graham Arlen
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:28:18 EDT
From: JJK1204@aol.com
Subject: Re: Milano Fan not working
Todd,
There are a couple of possibilities. First there are pair of
relays
with
integral fuses on the passenger fender. One is for the air conditioner
the other is for the fan. I don't remember which is which. First
check the
fuses. Second there is a temperature switch on the radiator, make sure
the two wires that connect to it are in good shape. With the ignition
on you
can check the temp switch by carefully putting a jumper between the
two
wires, the fan should run. If not I believe I have a spare fan.
John Katos
West Dundee, IL
-also make sure ALL contacts are clean. ED.
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 00:54:37 -0800
From: Nizam Zambri <nizam@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Milano/75 Engine Fan Question
John,
(these tests need to be done with the ignition switch in the "run"
position, careful, I predict some sparks will brighten your day)
1. Check the fuse on top of the two relays on the left side of the engine
bay, beside the air box. The radiator fan circuit carries a 30A fuse.
They do get old, and eventually pop.
2. Just as a test, swap the A/C compressor relay and the fan relay (I
assume your A/C works - which implies that the relay works). Be sure to
keep the correct fuse in the correct circuit. The fan will easily blow a
15A fuse under certain heavy current-draw situations.
3. Check the fan switch at the bottom of the radiator. This might be
hard to get to. Once you find it, short the two wires together to see if
the fan comes on. If it does, you have a dead fan switch. These are
cheap and are easy to find. In fact, I've had good luck using 1988 VW
Jetta fan switches for my Milanos. If this IS the case, make sure you buy
the switch with the correct temperature range (stamped on the side of
yours).
4. Check the fan itself. Put power and ground to the corresponding leads
and the fan should come on. Watch your fingers. If you have a dead fan,
drive down to Cupertino, I have an extra one ... warning; it is as old as
yours so it may not have much of a life left but then again, my wife's
Milano is still on the original fan and her Verde has 227,000 miles (I
swapped mine for a 1995 164 fan, along with the shroud, quieter and draws
less current). You'll have to put it in yourself, though, and watch your
fingers.
5. If none of the above checks out bad, it's an obscure problem that you'
ll have to hunt down with a voltmeter. I'm guessing it's either (1) or (3)
since both have had history of failure on my car. Oh, I have a spare fan
switch too if you can't find one.
Nizam
just down the highway from John
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott potter <twincamracing@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: V6 water pump
> I'm sure someone know if the water pumps in 2.5 and
> 3.0 are the same, or different? I didn't found any
> answer in recent posts about water pumps.
Jerry, they are the same for the rear drive applications (GTV6, 75) but
different in front drive applications. So, if you use a 164 engine in a
Milano you need a Milano water pump.
Cheers,
Scott
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