22- Brakes, includes ABS

• ABS sensors
• Brembo Parts
• Creaking Brakes
• Soft pedal
• Pad glazing
• ABS similar
• Anti-loc lite on and off
• ABS tests
• Pads, caliper rebuild
• Pad cross
• Speedbleeder
• Hard pedal?
• Parts
• Slotted rotors
• More soft pedal
• Leaking ABS pump
• ABS low pressure
• Volvo 4 piston
• ATE, Brembo pads
• Rear rotor bolt removal
• Hand brake adjustment
• ABS pump running lots
• non abs mc change
• Tarox parts
• Speed sensor cbl fix
• Front rotor chng wrng
• ABS relays
• New Accu and pump
• ABS pump rebuild
• ABS remove new plumbing
  

                                                       John 

Dave asks:

    dj> True, but the dust covers will undoubtedly wear out
    dj> eventually.  They can also be accidentally torn.  If someone
    dj> does find a source for these, _please_ post it for those of us
    dj> with Brembo calipers!  Meanwhile, I will be very careful when
    dj> I dismantle my calipers so I can reuse the seals.

I haven't really been paying attention to this thread, and so I post
this at the risk of being completely out of touch (which some might
argue is a problem no matter what the situation).  That said, back
when I had my Moto Guzzi, all my Brembo rebuilds came from the Slater
Brothers.  The address I have is:

    Slater Brothers - Brembo Distributors
           PO Box 1
           Mica, WA  99023
           (509) 924-5131 (Work)
           (509) 928-0918 (FAX)

Apologies if this is out of date or not germane...  But if it does
turn out to be useful, let me know!

Marc Alley
Palo Alto

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:22:47 EDT
From: JJK1204@aol.com
Subject: Re: Milano front brakes

In a message dated 4/29/99 7:28:18 PM Central Daylight Time,
Aibrucia@aol.com 
writes:

<<  I have the "creaking" 
 brake syndrome that has been discussed recently, and I notice the pads are
wearing unevenly.  Therefore I'm planning on installing rebuilt calipers
and 
 new rotors and pads. >>
Tony,
Before you replace the calipers be sure that the pistons are stuck. The 
uneven wear can be caused by the pads pivoting on the anti-chatter spring, 
thus the creaking.
John Katos
87 Platinum

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:35:11 -0400
From: Hirsch <Catenary@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Milano brakes

Peter wrote:
 =
>> The brake pedal sinks all the way to the floor. The brakes
have pretty good stopping power, but you have to press the pedal
all the way to floor to stop the car all the way.  I've driven
the car around town like this, but it's not a safe feeling... <<

Here's a real longshot, but...
 =
On my Milano the brake MC was bad and I had to replace it.
In the process of replacing the MC the 3/8" tip of the vacuum
booster actuating rod came off and the new MC was put on without
the tip in place. The result was excessive brake pedal travel
before the brakes would grab. This makes sense, since the
actuator rod was too short. Finally figured it. This happened
to another Digester too. Possibly something to check out.

>> Now my brake lights (in the back) are on ALL the time. Even
if I'm not pressing on the pedal and the car is off... <<

Check the brake light switch. On the Spider at least this switch
is actuated by a flat piece of metal attached to the brake pedal
lever. If the attaching hardware comes loose or the switch fails,
the lights turn on.
Good luck,
Rich
Editor, i Saluti, St Louis AROC
Website: http://www.catenary.com/victor/isaluti

Dan Walker inquired regarding his Milano brake problems.   Said they
wouldn't lock when hot or cold. =
 

The most likely phenomenon is that the fronts are glazed.  Metalmaster pads
are notorious for this,  if not precisely broken in,  and if you didn't do
any rotor work when you replaced them with the Ereminas pads,  then some of
the glaze likely transferred and pushed them in that direction as well. If
you mixed the pads as described, in your post  than the back pads are not
likely doing much work either.  All street pads sold in the US are rated
with a 2 letter code which represents relative friction coefficient. The
ratings are stamped on the back so that mechanics can be sure to replace
pads with pads of similar Cf even if of different brand.   The first letter
is the relative  ,Cf when cold, the second relates to Cf when  hot. 
Metalmasters rears (and most other MM aps) are rated EE, (low Cf, the
lowest I know of for street use) and if memory serves (and it usually
doesn't! ) the Ereminas pads are rated GG or even GH (higher Cf).  This is
a fairly significant mismatch and would leave the rears doing quite a bit
less work  than they should.  But the good news is ....better this than the
other way around which would cause rear lock up.  I would strongly
recommend you use a matched set all around with the Mintex .
As to the questions regarding rotor replacement.  The hubs separate cleanly
from the rotors on the front so there is no need to replace bearings and
seals if you only want to  take the rotors to be refinished.  It is however
ceratinly a good time to repack them when you have them off , in which case
new seals would be appropriate.  I would also not undertake the job with
out a runout guage to check the final mount because in my experience if the
machine shop doesn't do a perfect job you may need to do some minor
shimming on  remounting to get a perfectly true fit.  On the other hand
maybe I'm overly finicky on such things but I like to know the runout is
true on reassembly and generally won't accept more than a couple mils
runout on any of my Alfa rotors.

Gerry Lehmann
'85 GTV6 2.5  (once a glazer of many rotors at time trials, has now seen
the light with Porterfield carbon kevlar)
'86 GTV6 3.0 (sporting high cf, low dust, repco deluxe pads)

Carson
We use the same oil filter for all of the Alfas at the dealer... The new
smaller one is easier to fit in. 

Other cars that used the ABS system are the Lincoln Mark VII and Mercur
Scorpio among others. I bougth my old pressure switch for my Plat. at a
Lincoln Mercury dealer for about 1/2 of Alfa...no difference other than
the car sprouting a full box frame and chrome after installing it. ;o)

Carson should get the "Harsh Environment Award". I looked on the map and
he is UP there!!!! 
>>>>>>>>>
From: Shadle, Scott
Date: 25 Aug 1997 17:54:16 -0400

I'd like to pass on some addnl. info that I received from my source at Teves.
Milano owners will note that the service manual shows how to disassemble the ABS hydraulic unit, but the parts microfiche does not show the parts as being available separately. Well, it turns out that if the "valve body" (the hydraulic part of the ABS control system) fails on your Milano, it can be replaced by the valve body from a '88-'90 Buick Reatta. (there may also be other US cars
for which the valve body would work on a Milano, but this was the one that seemed to be the most obvious substitution), but there may be one minor modification necessary - that is the studs that screw into the master cylinder unit onto which the valve body mounts may need to be replaced with longer studs, but
you won't know until you get the new valve body (the guy at Teves said that he does not know when and for what model that used the Mark II ABS the "upgrade" to the thicker cover plate on the valve body was implemented. I also spoke
to him about the recent AD posting about someone in Texas rebuilding the MC portion of the ABS. I asked whether or not it is advisable to try to rebuild them (he and I have spoken about this in the past and he said that Teves does no
t rebuild Mark II systems for any of the applications - including the much lar
ger volume applications on GM and Ford cars, because it is not an easy job).
He answer was that It can be done, but ONLY for the "regular master cylinder part" NOT the booster portion of the unit. He said that he has tried to rebuil
d these himself (just for "fun?" and edification) and has not succeeded - he a
lways broke or bent something. The problem is that you must remove and disconnect the booster portion of the unit to get at the MC pistons/seals. The "scissors" mechanism and other control linkages of the booster portion are somewhat delicate and if bent may be nearly impossible to repair. Also, regarding rebuilding the booster section - DON'T - DON'T - DON"T!!!!!!!!!
This section is a very delicate force balance mechanism and the spool valve in
this section has a tolerance of +-0.00010 to +-0.000.15!! A SINGLE FIBER OF
COTTON FROM A SHOP TOWEL OR A "THIN" HUMAN HAIR COULD LEAD TO A FAILURE, AND
EVEN THOUGH THE VALVE PISTON IS MADE OF HARDENED STEEL, DROPPING IT ONTO A RUBBER OR VINYL TILED FLOOR FROM WORKBENCH HEIGHT ONTO THE EDGE OF ONE OF ITS ENDS COULD DEFORM IT ENOUGH TO CAUSE A FAILURE. THESE ARE ORIGINALLY ASSEMBLED
IN A "CLEAN ROOM" ENVIRONMENT. Luckily, they very rarely fail. The most common failures of these ABS systems as they age (8 years or more/over 100K milesor lots of urban stop and go driving) are the high pressure pump/motors, accumulators and the MC seals. He said that he does know where the Texas people are getting the rebuild parts, but he almost sure that there was no agreement between the German company from whom Teves originally bought the pistons and seals that prevents them from selling service parts. I also mentioned the 400
rebuild price. He said that that sounded a little high to him, but after reflection, he said that given his 0 for 2 record trying the rebuild them himself
(and he has any technical info that exists available to him) they may be recouping their "development" costs for unit that they broke until they got the procedure right. So far I've only had to replace an accumulator on one of my Milano, but knowing that at least for some failures there is an alternative to a
2000 new replacement unit is somewhat comforting. Good luck!!

scott shadle
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
 

1958 Alfa Romeo Guilietta Spider Veloce
1969 Alfa Romeo 1750 Spider Veloce
2 - 1987 Alfa Romeo Millano Platinums
 

- -- 

Bill "Shagadelic" Harkell--Tampa Florida

Hmmm... I had an ABS failure once that was transient.  When I took a right
hand turn too fast, the ABS light would come on.  The problem was the wire
from the sensor had a hairline fracture.  Sitting still, the wire tested
fine.  Pulling 0.6g to the starboard, the wire would separate enough to
trip the light.

That's the only other idea I have.  Is there anything consistent with the
light coming on?  Turning, bumping, accel, decel, etc.?

Howard K. Warren

The ATE system does several levels of self-tests, and as you see on your car the ABS warning light is ON during the self-tests, then goes OFF . The ABS light is simply controlled by the system main power relay - the ABS control unit has a seperate power feed to the logic, the logic will turn on the bulk power to the solenoids if the logic thinks the base conditions ( pressure, fluid level, continuity in the wheel sensors, continuity in the control valve solenoids, etc.) are OK.

As the car is moving, the logic section is continously looking at the 4 wheel signals, and watching for differentials in velocity and acceleration between them. The controller has absolutely no input signal that says you have the brakes applied - it just looks at the wheel accelerations. If the wheel signals seem non-physical ( for example, right front accelerating at xx m/sec**2, left rear oscillating in speed, left front accelerating at 2xx m/sec**2) the controller says the inputs are too confusing and it can't run the ABS functions. It then turns OFF the bulk power, and this turns ON the ABS light. This is what is happening on your car.

To have this condition, either one of the tone wheels ( the toothed wheel that the inductive sensor reads) is damaged, out of round, installed incorrectly, etc. Or one of the sensors are spaced incorrectly, or damaged. Or there is too much runout in a  wheel or hub bearing, so that the spacing between the sensor and tone wheel is changing as the car turns, etc., causing drop-outs in the signal. Also, if the tires are not matched, causing different wheel speeds on different sensors, you can get the controller to drop out.
You sound like you have the right combination of manuals and information to fix this - what you need to do now is look at the wheel signals while the car is moving with an oscilloscope, testing for missing pulses, runt pulses, etc. I use a break-out box, which plugs in between the car cable harness and the ABS controller.
This ATE MKII system was used on lots of cars, including Alfa, SAAB, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, (even the Buick Regatta) - and you may find that some SAAB or BMW shop has the tools and experience to quickly tell you which wheel is acting wierd. Later versions of the ABS controller have more complete diagnostic info than the 1985 era model that Alfa was using - for this series you pretty much have to look at the input signals with an oscilloscope.

How did you do the AC tests on the sensors/wheels?

                                                                   John Fox

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:23:43 EDT
From: JJK1204@aol.com
Subject: Re: Brembo caliper rebuild kits

In a message dated 4/5/99 2:53:04 PM Central Daylight Time, 
j.h.bouma@wb.utwente.nl writes:

<< Dismantling the calipers showed that the outboard piston in the left
 caliper had rotated through 180 degrees, causing the pad to wear unevenly
 and also causing the creaking noise. >>

Jaap,
Are you sure the piston rotated? I had the same symptoms with my Milano and

it turned out that the pads had worn to the point that the retaining spring

was keeping the pads from contacting in the front. The front of the pads
were 
held apart and this caused accelerated wear on the inside of the pad. The 
creaking was the metal retaining spring being flexed.

John Katos
87 Milano Platinum
 

Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:35:29 +0200
From: Jaap Bouma <j.h.bouma@wb.utwente.nl>
Subject: Re: Brembo caliper rebuild kits

At 06:46 PM 4/5/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I am pleased to see confirmation of this.  I was told the same thing by AR
>Ricambi when I ordered kits for my 82 GTV6.  At the time I did not know
it, but
>I have the Brembos also.  They said the kit was the same for both, so I
did not
>need to check.  OTOH, they told me several other things which proved to be
>incorrect, so I was not very confident I got the right ones.

Piston seals are identical, the dust covers for the ATE appear to  be
designed to sit further from the brake pad. The Brembo pistons have a
groove in the piston for the dust cover right at the edge of the piston. I
suspect that the ATE pistons have a groove about 3 or 4 millimeter (1/8
inch) away from the edge.

>Not sure why you would need new pistons, unless yours were damaged by
turning
>180 degrees?  My service kits did not include the pistons.  Did your ATE
kit
>include them?

No, but the chrome plating of one of the pistons was damaged by a few (very
small) rustspots near the dust cover.

>I was under the impression that my kits would include everything needed
for the
>overhaul.  I guess I need to check to see if they are compatible with the
>Brembos, which I have not rebuilt yet. 

I just used the piston seals. Fortunately, these are the bits that are most
likely to wear.

Best, Jaap Bouma (Netherlands)
'87 GTV6 2.5 Grand Prix

I found that the rear brake pads for a Porsche 914 will fit my GTV6... =
Needed to do so to get some carbon Kevlar racing pads.

Ray Boniface

     I'm considering purchasing a set of Speedbleeders for both my 164 and 
     GTV-6 (in the never ending quest to make my life easier) and am 
     wondering if anyone can confirm the proper sizes for each car. The 
     information I have from Speedbleeder is as follows:
164 Front = 8mm X 1.25 Rear = 7mm X 1.0
GTV-6 Front = 10mm X 1.0 Rear = 7mm X 1.0
For some reason, I thought the rear bleeders on both the 164 and GTV-6
were 8mm. Any thoughts/experiences appreciated. Thxs.

     Kevin Fillip
     Dallas, Texas

Neil Smith wrote:

When the car has been sitting for six or more hours, my Milano's
brake pedal is very difficult to push in very far, and doesn't
engage the brakes very well. All it takes to correct this is a
good solid push on the pedal, and then it will engage normally.
I'm guessing it's air in the system and it needs bleeding, but
the larger question is why would this situation occur? Fluid
level is fine.
Incidentally, it has also happened twice when coming off the
freeway.

As always, thanks,
Neil.

Neil,

There is a hose running from your brake booster to your plenum.  Loosen
the hose clamp where it is connected at the plenum.  Remove the hose.
Use a wrench to unscrew that thing the hose was connected to.  It has
standard right hand threads and is a check valve.  Clean it out (carb.
cleaner may help). Reinstall the check valve and hose.  You should no
longer have the problem described.

The vacum from the intake plenum is where the brake booster gets the
"boost" (low pressure) by which it boosts.  Thus when the check valve is
not opening, you don't have "power brakes" - you just have brakes.  You
should only be able to blow through the end of the check valve the hose
connects to.  In operation the valve is opened by the lower pressure in
the plenum.

And, FWIW, if there were air in you brake fluid lines your pedal would
be spongy as opposed to hard.

Rodney
McComb, MS

>From Demon Tweeks ( http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/ )in the United Kingdom.
Very helpful people, two very good catalogues, lots of very nice goodies.
And they generally know what they are talking about: for example, they gave
me a choice of front brake pads: with wear sensor (for the 75/Milano), or
without wear sensor. The latter were originally for a seventies Opel Manta
(a wannabe sports coupe based on a very, very dull saloon), and only half
the price of the otherwise identical alfa pads!

The brakes are now great. Before, I had fitted cheap aftermarket (Hi-tec)
rear discs and pads allround as a stopgap solution until I found better
stuff. They were awful: braking power wasn't very good, lots of brake dust,
the squealing was so bad I could give innocent bystanders the fright of
their life simply by touching the brake pedal, and I think I burned the
rear pads during a bit of spirited driving in Scotland.

Now, with the all new set-up, braking is transformed. No noise, less dust,
and great braking performance, especially once the pads have warmed up.
Also very good feel in the pedal, which of course is helped by the ss
braided hoses. The only drawback was a (in my opinion) fairly long
bedding-in period.

Hope this helps. If you need more info, just let me know.

Best, Jaap Bouma (Netherlands)
'87 GTV6 2.5 Grand Prix

You may want to consider an alternative. TAROX, GFORCE and BREMBO makes
slotted rotors for our Milano/75s. Demon Tweeks sells those stuff at
around the same price as the Ate stuff.

regards,

Zamani

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:10:42 -0800 
From: Gerry Lehmann <lehmann@san.rr.com> 
Subject: Milano Brake Bleeding 

Sandro.Marcantonio wrote about difficulties in getting a proper peddle 
after bleeding the rear calipers on the Milano.  A possible cause that 
I've found relates to the installation of new calipers.  I believe that 
when new calipers are installed, there are small air bubbles that 
actually cling inside the new hardware when it is first wetted.  I had 
this same frustration when I installed new calipers on both of my 
Alfas.   I ran quarts of fluid through and couldn't get a good peddle. 
The solution was to drive it a bit (carefully) with the low peddle and 
then come back and bleed again.  The driving part seems to knock the 
stubborn air loose (there is something pot holes are good for!). In my 
case the air came out quite quickly when bled the final time after 
driving. Tapping on the caliper with a mallet might work too.

Gerry Lehmann 
'85 & '86 GTV6s 

Ralph Moorhouse wrote:
>> I have a small leak in the casing (!!!) of the ABS pump
on my Verde. Strange place to leak.!! WHile not affecting
the braking (yet) it does create an irritating mess. <<

There is a weep hole in the pump behind the shaft seal so
if any brake fluid leaks past the seal it leaves the pump
rather than attacking the motor windings.

So, if the leak is near the seal, there is no defect in the
pump casing--it's supposed to work this way.

And yes you do need a new pump, since the seal is worn
and leaking.

Rich Hirsch
St Louis MO

The anti-lock brake light on my '87 Platinum came on over
the weekend.  At first I was not worried as this has
happened before and usually just calls for a cleaning of the
battery terminals.  This time was different however because
the system would not reset itself upon turning off the
ignition and restarting the car.  Finally on Saturday night
I started to experience the much publicized dreaded rock
hard pedal with very little braking.  I immediately returned
home and switched vehicles.

Sunday I began to investigate.  I was anticipating the worst
case scenario, of a shot pump.  If this was the case I had
already decided to scrap the ABS.  I turned on the ignition
and to my surprise the pump fired right up and pressurized
the system.  I pumped the brakes five times and the pump
fired up again, no problem.  I even took it for a test drive
and all was well.  I figured it was just a bad connection
somewhere and went about detailing the battery connections
and various grounds.

Later in the day the problem resurfaced, anti-lock light
would not extinguish due to the pump not running.  This time
I printed the various web pages and dug out the manual and
started investigating.  Following the manual I tested the
power feed at the pump and on the pins of relay I40 located
behind the fuse box.  Turned out I had only 4.26 v at both
locations.  Obviously not enough to operated the pump.  Next
I traced the power feed for the relay back to the battery.
The only possible problem along this path is the metal strip
fuse located on the inner wheel well next the coil.  At
first the fuse looked fine, however a closer look reveled a
stress crack in the center.  This was obviously limiting the
voltage in the circuit.  As a short term fix I soldered the
strip back together.  Once reinstalled the pump came right
on and pressurized the system back up again.

Tomorrow I begin looking for a replacement fuse.  I've never
looked for a metal strip fuse (my terminology) before.  Are
they readily available and as common as the regular blade
fuses, or are they an Alfa specific item.  Any other
substitutions?

Scott Swanberg, St. Paul, MN
'87 Milano Platinum

--- In alfa75@egroups.com, "chris.pascher" <chris.pascher@p...> wrote:
> I want to change my front brakes into better .Who knows wich 
callipers i can build in?
>   I have an 75 3.0.
> I have heard of Volvo 4Piston calippers which i can build in.
> Can anybody help me?
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi, Chris,
I've used 4-piston Volvo calipers on my 75 and yes, they do work.
You need calipers off Volvo 240 modelline and they need to be with 
vented discs, otherwise the gap between the sides of the caliper is 
too small and you can't fit vented discs .
The calipers bolt straight onto the 75 hub, but you will find that 
the original 75 discs are too small. The alternative that I have 
found are 164 V6 discs (284x26). They have the same PCD(distance 
between the bolts).Then you need to open up the diameter of the 
center of the disc, in order to fit the part of the hub that holds 
the bearing. After that you need to find a spacer in order to find 
the proper offset of the disc.
The last thing you need to do is have a t-connection made-up, since 
the Volvo utilises a twin hydraulic system and hence has two holes 
instead of one on the Alfa for the brake line. 
Now you can simply bolt it on, put in new brake fluid and...done.
This application, to the best of my knowledge, can be fitted on 5-
stud 75 models.
Contact me if you need anything more to ask.

Cheers, 
Danny
 --- In alfa75@egroups.com, John Møller Hansen <jmh@l...> wrote:
> Hi, John,
I found, apart from the overall feel of far better braking, that I 
now have 284mm overall diameter, instead of 269 of the original 75 
discs. Next, the pad of the Volvo is appr. 10% wider and 20% longer 
than the standard Alfa 75 pad. Regarding fade, the pads I am 
currently using are an american brand (Repco or PBR, I think) and 
they are a bit on the hard side, which means that after they warm up, 
they get better. I tested my car (3.0 V6 America, the heaviest 75 
version you can get) on a long straight 15% downslope, which is part 
of the ring road of my town, where on the old brakes, when I was 
trying to slow it down on that straight from appr.90-95 mph, after 
about 200 meters the front pads started to become noisy, on the new 
brakes I haven't seen yet any signs of them getting tired. Another 
thing I've found is that I need less pressure on the pedal to achieve 
the same result.
THE DOWNSIDE: the calipers are a lot heavier than the standard Brembo 
aluminium ones, and you know the results from this.
I don't know whether this test is reliable at all to you, but I find 
that on the same route I take daily to go home, the car feels and 
certainly brakes a lot safer than it used to. 

Yep . . . the beautiful alloy Brembo calipers are on some Milanos.  But
the Ate pads fit just fine.  In fact the pads specified by suppliers for
Milano front brakes will fit either the Ate calipers or the Brembos.  A
moment of brilliant thinking on the part of the Alfa supportability
engineers.  In my brief lifetime, those Ate pads give the best
all-around
street performance, pedal feel, quietness, etc., though they cost more
and tend to dust up the wheels a bit.

Ron Coddington
'69 1750 GTV
'79 Alfetta GT
'87 Platinum (no ABS, thank the Lord)

Ronald had quite a time removing the Allen cap screws even using the bimmer
trick rust buster.   Well, since the Allen wrench is a lousy tool to use,
rounds off. I use a Stilson wrench.  A Stilson wrench, for you young'uns,
is a pipe wrench.  Use the size that just long enough to grab the screw
head.  I never had to use penetrating oil.  Fred Di Matteo 

First, welcome. Safely jack the car up in back supporting the body so that 
the suspension hangs down. The handbrake cable runs through the left caliper, 
through the rear trans mounting block and finally through the passenger side 
caliper. First make sure that the cable is seated properly in the caliper 
parking brake arms. There are two nuts on the cable on the passenger side. 
Soak them with a penetrant until you can turn them without shearing off the 
end of the cable. The smaller is a lock nut so back that off and using the 
larger nut take up the free play of the actuator arms. The handbrake is 
properly adjusted when turning the large nut just starts moving the arms. The 
handbrake should hold on the fourth click.

John Katos
West Dundee, IL

Also look in the Articles section. ED.
-- 

Hi everyone, glad to see the digest back!

As you all know I now have another Verde.  I bought the car with the ABS and brake light coming
on simultaneously rendering the rear brakes/power assist useless
whenever the driving
conditions were stop and go.  After a little research I found out what
most of you probably
already know, that the ABS pump was not keeping the pressure up in the
accumulator. 

The question is why not?  The PO had already replaced the accumulator
with a new unit, so I
ruled that out.  I began my investigation by doing the 'how many pumps
of the pedal per ABS
pump cycle' test.  After 5-6 pumps the ABS pump would come on for 10-11
seconds.  From my
research this seemed a little on the low side.  My theory at this point
was that the pump was
getting hot and crapping out under stressful conditions.  Those
conditions seemed to be high
temperatures and high cycle rates, such as sitting in traffic.

The next time the lights came on I immediately pulled over and checked
the pump.  It was
spinning it's little heart out but it sounded highly stressed and it was
so hot it burned my
hand when I touched it.  Hmm, this was supporting my theory.  My goal at
this point was to try
to keep the pump cool, since the pump never failed when it was cool.  I
made a heat shield for
it to shield it form the exhaust manifold and I ran some ducting from
behind the headlight to
the pump to try to get some cool air to it.  This seemed to do the
trick.  After a 30 mile
drive that included some stop and go I checked the pump temperature, a
little more cautiously
this time, and found it to be warm but not hot. 

Now that I had the pump temperature at least a little bit under control
I was still concerned
about the low pumps per cycle factor.  I read somewhere (forget exactly
where) that perhaps a
thorough pressure bleeding of the brake system would help.  Apparently
someone fixed a similar
problem with his Milano by pressure bleeding the brakes.  What the heck,
the brake fluid needed
changing anyway.  I hooked up the pressure bleeder and thoroughly bled
the braking system.  I
did get some air out of the rears and a little out of the fronts.  It
resulted in a significant
improvement.  The ABS pump now cycles after 8-9 pumps of the brake pedal
instead of 5-6.
That's a 50% reduction in duty cycle for the pump.

The problem appears to have gone away.  The combination of the heat
shield, some cooling air,
and the reduction in duty cycle has kept the pump temperatures down and
the braking system
working even under stress conditions.  Let's see how long this lasts...

Hope this helps someone else out there with the same problem.

On the subject of Spider seats, I traded my pair of '85 Veloce torture
devices for a set of '88
Veloce seats and never looked back.

- -Lalo
'88 Milano Verde

My car was becoming increasingly unpleasant to drive with the following
brake symptoms:

-Pedal feels dead/soft/springy
-Slow (invisible) fluid loss
-Rear brakes very difficult to bleed
-Rest of braking system in good order

After deciding that my master cylinder was suspect, I replaced it.
It was an easy job (and not too expensive) - and the good news is that
the brakes now feel "like new"!

So yes, the master cylinder was definitely faulty - even though the
car recently passed it's annual brake test without problems(!)
I will take it apart for a post-mortem, hopefully that will reveal
where it had failed.
Apparently this is a common fault, especially if the brake fluid has
not been changed regularly (previous owners, eh?).
-- 

Hello All,

  I was at an Auto-X this Sunday and it was sponsored by the the Audi 
club.  One of the items a vendor had for sale was Tar-OX calipers and 
discs... The guy told me they had made them for Alfa's and I checked 
out the page and sure enough they do... They offer a 4 and 6 piston 
solution and some really nice rotors.

 Here are the links if anyone is interested...

These are the calipers:
http://www.tarox.com/Product_Listing/Tarox_Kits/tarox_kits.html

These are the rotors:
http://www.tarox.com/Product_Listing/Alfa_Romeo/alfa_romeo.html
 

  Does anybody here know about these items or have tried them ?

Regards,
   Steve

A few days ago I was using a wire brush on an angle grinder,
preparing to do some welding in the drivers side jack point. I
wasn't paying attention and snagged the ABS sensor cable with
the grinder, and *snap* it was in three pieces. 

When I examined the wire I was somewhat surprised to see that
the copper shielding wire, and even the core wire were green with
corrosion... Top to bottom. The outer insulation came off really
easy. 

Playing with my multimeter, I noticed that the inner conductor was
also severed right at the sensor. It looks like a fatigue problem, as
it bends whenever the wheels are turned. 

I used some RG-8 coax as replacement wire. Splicing Coax is no
fun, but can be done. Some shrink wrap & black tape and it looked
pretty good. A quick check with the multi-meter showed 1094
ohms, right on spec. 

I'm curious to see how the RG-8 stands up... 

--Mark 

In a message dated 6/7/2001 3:17:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
res04tlk@gte.net writes:
 

> Is there any special trick I should know before I remove my Milano front
> rotors.
> 

Yes, if you have a Platinum or Verde (ABS) be careful with the ABS
encoder ring. It is held on by a large circlip.

John Katos

If you chip a tooth off the encoder ring the ring is garbage and needs to be changed. Ed.
 

Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:20:07 -0600
From: "Joseph Kanellopoulos" <kanellj@attbi.com>
Subject: ABS update

Hi gang,

a few months back, I had another problem with the ABS, which ended up having
the Milano towed home.

Long story short, I pulled the battery pole off put it back on and it was
working fine it seemed. Not satisfied that this was the only problem I looked
at the relays and found them all to be in a sad state.

2 out of the 3 ABS relays are the classic $1 relays you can buy of most online
electronics places, where as the current carrying one (main) relay (the
Siemens one) is not easily available. I got it from Ruth at alfaparts
(she is a lifesaver).

After replacing the main relay I took the old one apart and to my surprise
(and horror) all of the metal from the contacts had been blown off!!!!!!

I plan to post a pic of the contacts soon, for those who have the morbid
curiocity to see what and how, but I was wondering if anyone has seen anything
of its like before, since ALL the metal inside the cast part of the contact
was literally gone.

I have since drived the car for about 2 months, and have put more than 1600
miles on it, (hwy and bumper to bumper) and the ABS has been working fine (as
I had a chance to verify recently in light snow with the Kumhos on..)

Considering that the pressure hold fine (5 full pumps between the pump coming
on again), it holds the pressure for more than a day of being parked if you
have had the pump work before the car was turned off, and in general nothing
else seems to be wrong with it, do you guys think that there could be anything
else I need to check into.

The accumulator is brand new and the pump and master cylinder have both been
replaced with "good used ones" 8k miles ago.

I am thinking of taking it to the Alfa dealer here (West Suburban) for a full
ABS check as a precaution, since they supposedly have the right tool for that.
What exactly do they check in that procedure?

Any opinions?

Thanks again,

Joseph