80- Heater and AC

• A/C stuff
• A/C probs
• A/C Parts
• Heater control
• A/C no start
• A/C pump rebuild
• Heat always on
• A/C belt change
• A/C not working
• Bad heater switch
• Fan speed resistors
• heater valve adjustment
• AC drier
  

Just an advance warning: some of this may sound like a jab against
APE...it is not in any way meant this way.

Ralph,

One of the best things you can do is find a really good A/C shop. The
type that rebuilds compressors and often deals mostly with auto
dealerships. There's a shop here in Clearwater that has no major
thoroughfare frontage and because it's making its money from dealers
has only limited profit interest in many things. Case in point: they
were very happy to hear me say, "I'd like to do the compressor
pull/install labor on my GTV6" because it would save them time
(billable time no less.)

As a A/C-only shop, they immediately recognized the components and
suggested several alternative, less expensive items which are
functionally identical. The drier, for instance. Also, they fabricate
the hose assemblies in-house at a very low price and insisted most
hoses be replaced due to age and wear. Then there's the compressor...

On a Milano, you have the far more efficient rotary Sanden compressor.
This is a good thing. I thought it prudent to make the switch. I
bought the conversion kit from Alfa Parts Exchange. They promised to
provide the compressor and the mounting hardware. I received the
compressor without hardware, but after notifying them of the omission
they sent the hardware via 2-day air.

My A/C shop checked out the compressor. Their diagnosis was, "it turns
very well (good bearings) but it leaks...depending on how the oil
reacts with the seals it may hold a charge or may leak it quickly."
They demonstrated the leaks by submersing the unit an pressurizing it
with compressed air. Lots of tiny bubbles bloomed from the seams. They
offered to rebuild (reseal) the compressor for $70. When contacted,
APE offered a refund but not a swap -- either I take my money back and
find another source or I could have the unit rebuilt. I can understand
APE's position...it costs a fair amount of money to send a heavy
article back and forth across the US.

I elected to have the compressor rebuilt. And I'd suggest that be your
course of action if you can find a competent A/C shop to do the work.
Before I bought the Sanden unit from APE, the shop did some research
on replacing the Mini York unit with an updated, more common
compressor. They couldn't find any solution that would be less
expensive than the combined cost of the kit from APE ($150) and a
possible rebuild ($70).

The shop's charge for flushing/charging the system, replacing about 7
feet of hose, drier, and belt was $120. All told, I've got superior
system composed of mostly new parts for $330.

The main lesson learned from this endeavor was that it's very
beneficial to find a shop that will work with you. When I initially
spoke with them, they didn't balk at the words 'Alfa Romeo' nor did
they elevate their rates. In their words, "A/C systems are basically
all the same, simple systems." When you run up against something you
can't fix yourself, call and shop around for such a shop. In a city
the size of Houston, there's got to be a similar operation. And that
Sanden compressor can easily be rebuilt.

Good luck,

- - Eric H., Clearwater, FL

hi mark, ewe said:
>I just had my A/C checked for leaks at a Canadian Tire store while I was
on
>vacation up in Canada. I got so hot over the 4 th of July weekend that I
>couldn't bare the ride home without some strong A/C. They said that it
>checked out fine and had no leaks but when they fully charged it the A/C
>blew warmer than ever. They checked to make sure the compressor was coming
>on. All the other heating functions are working and steppers seem fine.
The
>self test came up clean. Any suggestions on a probable cause and or cure?
==========================================
to ensure the steppers are working fine, ewe can czech to see that the
control
is in the rite position by opening the hood, pulling the plastic cover off
from
in front of the windshield, and look at that plastic arm w/the wire in it
at the
center of the car, from the passenger side (usa-type model).  it should be
towards the front of the car to ensure no heat goes thru the hvac.  my
steppers
are shot, & i manually moved this lever-arm forward to get a/c. 

if, in fact, you have freon, the steppers work, the compressor works, etc,
then
it's wery possible that your receiver/dryer went away, clogging the a/c
expansion walve.  this will prevent the good stuff from getting into the
evaporator, so no cooling effect when air's blown over it.  happened to an
old
wolwo i had, my pantera is currently afflicted.  common on cars w/little
a/c
use, or when ewe don't run the a/c at least once a month during the
off-season
(this also helps keep the seals from drying out).  surprising to hear of a
164
w/this problem, cuz the a/c normally gets a lot of winter use, unless you
always
keep it in the 'economy' mode.

good luck,

doug s

Does anyone have any aftermarket part numbers for a receiver/dryer in a
Milano?

Mike Harris listed a few part numbers back on 05-JUN-97 for a GTV6:

SCS/Frigette # 207-237
Everco # A9100
Murray # 208318
Delco # 15-195
4 Seas # 34259

He also said "Note that these dryers only have one port available for the
compressor cut-out switches - so replace both switches with a single hi/low
type switch that will switch the compressor off if the pressure either exceeds a
given level or falls below it (low refrigerant charge).  Note also that
this newer receiver/dryer is quite a lot taller than the older unit - but it
will fit well within the existing bracket."

Does anyone know if I could use the above receiver/dryers in a Milano or is
there a difference between the GTV6 specs and the Milano ones?

Michael Conrey
Myersville, MD

Kevin Smith wrote (in part)

> When I put the cable back on the valve I discovered that the temperature 
>adjustment knob (the middle one) 
> doesn't move the cable.  Probably why the PO took the cable off.  Also,
the 
>direction knob (the one on the left) 
> does not appear to work either.
> Are both of the knobs strictly cable operated

Kevin,

As already stated the Milano heat/ventilation system is cable "operated". I
assume you have a car with A/C cause the non-A/C cars have the heater valve
on the passenger side.   The little wire is pushed and pulled by a small
plastic arm that is connected to the dial.  Turn the dial and the arm is
rotated.  If both of controls of yours are not moving the cable (not even a
little) I would bet the little arm(s) broke.  Not an easy thing to fix.

At any rate, you will need to get under and have a look.  I just went
through the same thing with my Milano.  On mine, the arm on the far left
dial broke.  You can get a look at the thing by removing the center
console:
1.  Open the little elbow pad/storage box and remove the one screw in the
bottom of it.  If you do not see a screw, you must remove the bottom piece.
It fits in tightly, use a small knife blade or similar to catch the edge
and lift it out
2.  With the p-brake down, lift this elbow pad "assembly" up and look for a
13mm bolt.  It is at the very back.  Remove this bolt.
3.  Remove the screws on the left and right sides of the console, there are
four; two on the vertical sides, between the "rear" and front halves and two
up front, connecting the front part of the console to the main dash.  Slide
the rear part back as far as you can.
4.  Remove the radio and the radio slide in housing (if you still have a factory radio)
5.  Lift the parking brake as high as you can and slide the "rear" part of
the console back and away from the front. 
6.  Being careful and you will be able to remove the front part of the
console.  It was held in by the two screws and a couple of tongues just
above the heating controls and spring clip to the "rear" part of the
console, that is why you need to push the rear part back first.  Now you can
clearly see the dial "box".  You can also view the back of the box.  (You
will need to put your head in the foot area, against the pedals).

With the console removed you will see the little cable housings and the
operation of the system.  The cable is actually spring wire.  You can buy
the stuff at hobby stores, it is used in remote control air planes to
control the rudder and other wing things.  Get the SAME gauge.  The store
may also sell these neat pliers that allow you to do a perfect "Z" bend
which is required at the end of the wire to connect it to the lever.  You
can get the same result with small pliers and patience.   If you happen to
make the wire a little to long or short, you can change the length of the
cable housing by twisting the adjusting drums on the  cable housing.

The "dial box" is connected to the air box unit with a small sheet metal
tab.  A pop-rivet holds the tab to the box.  You can just pry it out and use
a screw in place of it.  Be careful as the A/C temperature feedback "tube"
and some wiring are also connected.  You might get the "dial box" from a
parts place (APE, or other).

It is important that the wire just before the end ("Z") is very straight. 
The wire is like a little column and any kind of kink or  bow will allow it
to buckle and not push the lever it is connected to.  Lastly, resist the
temptation to spray oil in the cable housing.  This will get gummy and will
create friction.  If anything, use an electrical contact cleaner to flush
the housing.   Maybe a little dry graphite would be OK.  If you can, get
the
teflon coated cable the VWs have.  I am not sure if the diameter is right,
but you could get some from a 80's Vanagon.

The little plastic control levers are going to be hard to fix.  I had an
extra heater unit so, I just stole one from it.  It may be a dealer item,
but I doubt it.  And of course, the plastic lever for each dial is unique. 
You may want to make an arm "end" out of aluminum plate (like 3/16" thick).

It could be attached to the remaining portion of the plastic arm with small
screws or many warps of fine wire.  Just an idea.
Don't forget to check the valve and duct work for smooth easy operation. 
Sorry for the long post.  Good luck.

Erik Roe
Portland, OR
Milano, old Spider, older Spider

In v07.n1530 Jorge asks about milano a/c.

> hi everybody
> My Milano 3 L, 1989, decided to put it's A/C on strike.  It was working
> during the winter but now is out.
>  Ignition key on, with engine off: no clicking sound.
> Engine on, no aux fan, no cold air, no moving of fluid or bubbles thru the
> freon "viewer" nut.  Interior blower works, all switches in the correct
> position.  Fuses in front engine compartment, passenger side are OK.
> Were else do I look?

I'd say check grounds near the a/c clutch actuator.  If I recall, there are
two wires grounded on or near the compressor, one of which is a small one
under a cross head screw.  This was a problem on my car until I detailed it.
Some experienced alfa folks suggest detailing all of the connectors in this
car.  Also check the a/c relay, located in a socket up by the rhs headlamp.
My car had a bad one.  I believe the owners manual calls these out by
function so you can tell which is which.

cheers,
mark m thornton
seattle washington usa

Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:06:46 -0700
From: "Jorge Mazlumian" <jmazl@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Milano A/C

thanks to Nizam, Giovanni and Jeff for your responses.  The car went to
the shop today.  Initial opinion by Alfa MD was: probably out of gas.  The
pressure valve disconnects the compressor if the pressure is dangerously
low, to protect it (I suppose).  Final results to follow-
Will also fine tune alignment, oil / filter, brake pads (warning light on
and off), and custom fit the bra for the hood only (so it can be opened).
Jorge -getting ready for Willow S.- Mazlumian
(GTV as daily driver for now)

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 16:52:02 -0400
From: "Colin Verrilli" <verrilli@vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: Milano A/C compressor rebuild

Last fall I rebuilt the A/C compressor from my milano but did not have any real
proof that the repair was successful until now. The system seems to be keeping
ahead of the hot weather. My symptoms were that the compressor was not
compressing. There was no pressure on the high side.

Here is some information that might help the adventurous amateur
mechanic perform the same operation:

The compressor used in the Milano is a Sanden model number 9529

Instructions for rebuilding the compressor can be found online at
http://www.sanden.com/support . Some improvising is required as the
tools mentioned in the manual are not available.

Parts can be ordered from Southeast Air in Ft. Worth TX. 1-800-274-1251

The shaft seal kit is part number 440699, $11.01
The valve and gasket kit is part number 440592, $39.64

I also replaced the expansion valve, the receiver-dryer and the hose o-rings.
The first two items can be ordered from an Alfa factory parts source. The
o-rings can be found at auto parts stores.
- --
Colin Verrilli
Apex, NC
'84 GTV6        '87 Milano Gold         '94 164 LS Auto
MAARC Web Page Editor: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2380
164 Home Page Editor: http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164
NOS Parts for sale: http://home.att.net/~c.verrilli/cbvparts.htm

trevor,

I had a problem with my Milano where the heat was always on.  It turned out
that the problem was not with the valve, but with the cable that turns the
valve.  It was not adjusted properly to stop the flow of coolant when the
knob on the dash was in the off position.  My car was like this when I
bought it and I assume came that way from the factory. You have to play
with the adjustment.  It's not obvious by looking at the outside of the
valve, to know when the valve is shut.  I found the off position through
trial and error.  You don't have to take anything apart to access the
valve.  It's above the drivers feet.

Michael Conrey
Myersville, MD

Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:27:03 -0700
From: Teruhiko_Higashi@lamg.com (Teruhiko Higashi)
Subject: Re: alfa-digest V7 #1740

alfa@digest.net writes:
>Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 12:12:25 -0400
>From: "Joseph A Fillip, Jr." <joseph.fillipjr@gte.net>
>Subject: Installing GTV-6 A/C Belt - Help Needed
>
>Anyone have any advice for installing the A/C belt on my GTV-6? Even with
>the tensioner pulley fully retracted, there's not enough slack in the belt
>to get it around both the compressor pulley and the crankshaft pulley.
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
>
>Joe Fillip
>Swarthmore, PA
 

I use a Gates 7346 belt which is a bit longer but easier to take off and
put on.  The one draw back is that it barely gives sufficient tension but
it does work.  The way I take it off and put it on is once the tensioner
pulley is loosened, I slip it off the crankshaft at much as possible and
hold it there with a butter knife.  Then I turn the engine over by hand to
take it off completely.
I set the tension once it is on by holding down the tensioner pulley with
a 3/4 inch (open end on the pulley) combination wrench while tightening
the pulley nut.
-- 
Hi Carson,

I have been reading your Milano/75 web page to gather information for heater control repair, and saw an article on removing the AC
belt. I have struggled mightily with this issue with two Milano's, and offer information on a gadget I discovered (see attachment). One
end is captured under the belt, and the wedge on the other end forces the belt into the groove as the engine is turned. It is available
from  www.eastwoodcompany.com and it really works.

George Schweikle
Lexington, KY

I never worked on a spider, but there should be a pressure switch on the
receiver/dryer that cuts off the compressor if the pressure is too high or too
low. You may have the four-wire switch. If so, two of the wires control the fan
operation and the other two are for the cut-off. You should be able to short out
both and see if the compressor and fan come on. Don't leave it too long though
if the pressure is bad...

TMurray845@aol.com wrote:
>
> On my recently purchased 91 Spider the A/C in non-functioning.
> When I turn the blower on and the temp control to full cool my compressor
> will not engage.  The nearest Alfa mechanic is 100+ miles away, and I have
> managed to do all the work on all my other Alfas without needing any paid
> help.  But A/Cs are not in my area of experience.  It is my perception that
> the compressor has some sort of safety switch that will kill the power to the
> compressor if the cooling gas is low.  Am I correct?  I don't want to take
> the car to an A/C shop until I know that the compressor clutch is functioning
> properly.
> When I read it with a test light I am getting No voltage.
> Any input about how to test the electrical clutch and temp control before I
> send it to Mr. A/C would be appreciate.
>
> Thanks!
> Stan

It's the switch!, Take it out and look it's been arcing and it'll be a
bit burned. It can't recall whether we just replaced with another switch 
or I seem to recall we were able to do a swap, because the other switch 
could be made to work.

Don't have a Milano anymore but we did cure the problem. It was in the
switch.

Best Wishes,
Bernie Bennett

ALFABYTE@aol.com wrote:

> My 1987 2.5L Milano has a bad heater blower motor or a bad switch.  The
> blower was full of leaves but seemed to work fine when I first turned it on a
> few weeks back.  Made some noise for a while as it turned the leaves into
> dust but through plenty of air.  Then the high position on the switch quit
> working.  Then all three quit. If I leave any one of the positions long
> enough the motor kicks back on, or did.  Now I get nothing. I was going to
> tap into the wires at the motor and bypass the switch and see what happens.
> Just wondered if anyone has experienced such a problem?  Is it almost always
> the switch or the motor something else?
> Thanks,
> Rick Dunleavy
> 1969 Spider
> 1987 Milano
> 1963 Cortina G.T.

> Where on the Milano is the resistor pack for the heater fan located?
> How do I get to it?  Does the whole center console have to come out?
> If so, how?  If anyone can respond to this w/in a couple hours it
> would be most appreciated.

It's in the ducts on the drivers side.

Time for the regular Milano fire warning.  You should be inside these ducts
on a fairly regular basis cleaning out leaves and other debris.  When debris
collects in these ducts it can eventually come in contact with the
resistors, which can get hot enough to glow at times.  When this happens
the debris can ignite, then you say good bye to your Milano if you're not
quick and lucky.

There was a tech article on some screening you could install up near the
inlets in front of the wind shield, perhaps somebody can point you to it.

While you have the ducting open vacuum out the fan housing.  You should
also pull out the fan so you can get at any debris that might be in the passenger side ducts.

HTH,

bs

To do this have power on, turn the fan on and turn the air switch to re-circ. Now turn the key off. This should leave the re-circ door open in the passengers footwell. Just reach up and pull, vacuum out what ever there is. The alfa service bulliten for the leaf intrusion barrier is 80.90.01. Carson

Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:45:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Jess Liao <jessl@best.com>
Subject: Re: Milano heater mix valve

the actual valve can be "seen" from driver's foot well, looking up
toward
top of the blower motor. The valve itself looks like 2 sliding blades.
One fixed with a stop bent 90 degree from the surface. The other rotates
around the first. 

First check to see if when you turn the heater to off, what is the
heater valve's stop position. Some times it may not be at the "off"
position.

To adjust this, the easierst way is probably remove the center vent
and hopefuly if your hand is not very big, you might be able to follow
the cable from behind the heater knub toward the valve, there should be
an adjusting knuckle. Turn ths knuckle will move the valve's arm's
position. 

Try to send it to "off" position and see if that helps.

There have been reported cases where the "off" position isn't exactly
"off", and that slightly open position might be the real off position...
so experiement a little.

If you have hard time reaching the knuckle, you might try removing the
radio. If all fails, pull the center console. Some might even be able to 
reach the knuckle tracing the cable from the valve and up... the
knuckle's
position might not be eactly the same from car to car... at least they
have been different between my 2 milanos...

if the stop position adjustment does not fix the hot coolant leaking
thru
the valve, then you might have to replace the valve...

good luck

jess
88verde
96ls